Saturday, 11 August 2007

Kyber Rising Part One


Dawn to early-afternoon. Second Sul of the month of Rhann (early autumn) 1008 KY, on the Island of Chillhame, near the Town of Bronce.

The characters are recalled to wakefulness by a blood-curdling scream. As they look about themselves they find they lie upon a stone plinth, with a glowing megalith towering above it, in a cluster of twelve other stone tables of a similar sort, all occupied. They have only a moment to take in these strange surroundings however, as their eyes are drawn to a terrible sight.

Above one of the plinths stands a woman both exotic and terrible. Twelve small twisted horns like those a goat grow finger-like from her forehead, crowning her in the shape of a Tiara. Her purple skin glistens with sweat and she licks her dark lips as though squirming with primal ecstasy, her organic seeming purple armour leaving her midriff and much of her chest bare and seeming to quiver with an excitement of its own. In one up-raised, perfect hand she clings to a still-dripping heart, beating erratically in her grasp. The other holds a bloody dagger. She laughs as the figure beneath her reaches feebly upwards, as if striving to reclaim the sacred treasure stolen from it’s chest.

At the sight of this someone gasps, and the woman’s attention is returned to the present. She howls in hatred and points to the plinths.

“Kill them! Kill the Shard-born!” she screams. In but a moment, she is gone, faded into the mists that surround the clearing. But other figures have not, as over a dozen frenzied, humanoid figures unleash their rage in a ulullalating, bestial war-cry and charge wildly out of the mists.
Immediately, some of the figures on the plinths are cut down, slaughtered before they can even fully regain their feat, but a small band, seven in number, rise at the far side of the clearing and begin to give battle.

Two of them, the War forged, Nine and his erstwhile companion, Ruz, hold their ground, electing to permit the enemy to come to them. But another, dressed in hide armour and bearing Longsword and shield charges forward to meet the uncommon creatures.

As he nears them, he recognises them for what they are. Mere hobgoblins, but hobgoblins of athe strangest sort. For these carry rusty, crude weapons and wear patchwork armour, as poorly kept and maintained as their discipline. Thutson nearly cleaves his first foe in two, but this first combatant is swiftly joined by two others. This rash act however, perhaps saves the life of a young girl.

To the eyes of the other heroes , peering through the mists, this young girl is in fact an elven archer of the Valenar horse-lords. Yet she acts as strangely as their attackers. Rather than stand and fight, she throws her bow in the air and screams, cowering behind her plinth as the other orange skinned warriors bear down upon her.

Yet the town guardsman, Clifford, does not let her fall undefended. He lunges forward, placing himself between the girl and the foe, and is quickly joined by Ruz, whose enchantment magic causes one hobgoblin facing Clifford to become distracted by a terrible wracking agony inside his head. The two are swiftly joined thereafter by the Warrforged, Nine.

Meanwhile, a second melee develops around Thutson, aided by the axe of Bagson and the bow of the groups true elf, Adria.

Against so formidable a group, the hobgoblins fall easily, the last one retreating into the mists. Alas, the group has not been quick enough to save the others, who fade from sight even now, seemingly taken by the mists, never to return.

The seriously wounded Ruz, almost becomes one of them. Luckily, it transpires that one of his new companions is not only a soul favoured by the gods, but posessed of a kind heart. Though it takes almost half of Cliffords spells, the changling is saved from an early, and likely very permanent, demise.

With the help of Adria, Constance, the girl cowering behind the stone, is quickly calmed. By her upper-class Sharn accent and the sheer expense of her make-up and costume - the bow alone being wrapped with platinum wire and inlaid with peal- it is clear the lass is out of her depth. However, upon seeing Nine she runs to him, clinging to his leg as though he were some sort of talisman against the dark. While Clifford heals the wounds of the party’s organic members - using his entire allotment of spells for the day- Constance turns her hand to magically repairing the wounds suffered by Nine. As she does so, the Warforged has a flashback, in which he recognises her as having been present at his creation.

The girl seems genuinely confused by this news, claiming not to remember any such thing. At that moment, most of then other characters realise that they cannot recall many important events in their lives, such as where they born or the names of their parents. While they seem to remember how to swing a sword or cast a spell, the secrets of their past seems lost to them.

While this conversation takes place, Ruz and Bagson examine the stone monliths. The plinths themselves each bear a niche, right beneath where the occupants heart would be were they once again lying on the slab in question. Each cnihe is filled by a now spent Siberys crystal, perhaps the length of a human forearm. The monoliths themselves appear to be carved from stone and to have fragments of glowing crystal embedded within. But as a dwarf, Bagson is able to proclaim that the stone was added later, like a sheath to protect the inner cystal. Each of the thirteen plinths bears a strange engraving, glowing with a faint purple radiance. Bagson has never seen anything like them, but the changeling recognises them as Dargonmarks -much as they would look when seen on the skin of a living being. None of the actual marks look familar to him, and neither of them think to bring the marks to the attention of Constance, who has already revealed herself to be a scion of House d'Cannith.

It is at that point the apparition appears.

She takes form slowly, over the central mound, and appears as a beautiful yet translucent women of golden skin and silvery hair. She speaks to the heroes as if very far away, calling them the “Shard-born” and warning them of a great evil which threatens the world. A great evil they must face alone. She seems saddened by what she calls their premature emergence, and by the quality of their vessels, which she says are as yet unprepared. It seems then, that whatever ritual has been performed, it was performed too soon, and by an enemy seeking to prevent “their” emergence at their true power. Whoever “their” might be.

After only a few moments, and leaving more questions behind than answers, including instructions to seek the Sword of Xenophon, “so that you might begin to remember”, she fades away into nothingness.

The characters begin to feel as if a soothing presence has been lifted, and though the mist has retreated in the last few moments, they find their surroundings as bleak and ominous as ever. They are on an island, perhaps a quarter of a mile across, linked to the mainland by a long, narrow causeway. The sun has risen. And on the southern horizon, a fleet of black sails appear on the horizon.

With no sign of the mysterious purple woman, or her hobgoblin servants, the party flee quickly to the mainland.

As they run, Constance, clearly unable to keep up and unused to such things, casts aside her bow and arrows, seeming not to care about the cost as Adria recovers them for her own use. For the sake of speed, Nine lifts her in his adamantine arms and runs with her cradled like a small child. By the time they are half-way across, the water is lapping around their ankles and around the thighs of the dwarf. However, at this point it becomes clear that what appeared to be the two peaks of a saddle bisecting a single hill is, in fact, two hills flanking the entrance to a small bay. Only moments later, as they skirt the hills which block their view of the Bay, they spot a large village complete with a single nearby windmill.

Fearing for the safety of the townsfolk, they run into the town, but are perplexed to see it near deserted so early in the day, at a time when all should be up and about and conducting their business, especially given the number of fishing boats drawn up on the beech. However, Bagson notes the poor quality of the boats and the terrible state of the nets and the party rightly conclude that fishing is not this towns usual means of support. Constance is so shocked at the state of the town that she exclaims “People actually live here?” not in snooty tones but in genuine shock. She seems quite moved when she learns that this is the case and that people could live quite comfortably in such squalor. She confesses she had never realised what a sad thing it was to be poor, as she has never before left the D`Cannith house enclave in Sharn. At least, not that she can remember. Her simple concern seems to improve her worth considerably in the eyes of her companions, some of whom finally realise that, far from being spoiled, she has merely been overly-sheltered by her parents. And that her sweet nature is truly no ruse.

This becomes even more clear as they reach the town to find it in as dilapidated a state as the boats themselves. Half the homes are falling apart, with rotten wood showing through the adobe facings and peeling paint. Clearly the town has fallen upon hard times. Even the many mine entrances now visible in the hills have no activity around them. Indeed, the only sign of life is an old woman who flees into her shop as soon as they party comes into sight of it. Although Thutson runs up one of the hills flanking the bay entrance, looking to measure the progress of the pirates, the others hurry up to the old woman`s shop.

The bang upon her barred door but are given no entrance. Instead, the old woman threatens to call the sheriff if they do not leave her be. Eventually they persuade her to provide directions to the inn. They head for the town square, still in some haste and somewhat dismayed by the old woman’s refusal to believe an invasion fleet is on the way. The find the inn at the far side of the marketplace, with an old fountain fronting a ruined shrine to the Sovereign Host before it. Although Clifford seems dismayed by the poor condition of this hallowed location, he does not allow himself to be distracted from his task.

The fellowship bursts into the inn, yelling about pirates and an invasion fleet and are met with ridicule and laughter. Even at this early hour, the inn is packed with folk who should be working. One group in particular catch the eye of the party, four fierce looking men who slouch in the corner and eye them suspiciously. It swiftly becomes apparent that not only do the characters not know what town they are in, they do not even know they are on an island! This only causes the four men to become even more suspicious, narrowly avoiding a fight when Nine engages what he refers to as “threat mode”. Luckily, the presence of a member of house D`Cannith and a sharply worded order from the young Constance calms him. However, the suspicion of the four men only grows when the party reveal they don’t even know what YEAR it is.

Indeed, at learning the news that the last war ended not seven but TEN years ago, Constance is so shocked that she near collapses and bursts in to tears screaming “I`m twenty! How can I be twenty! I haven`t even had a chance to be seventeen!”

Adria quickly moves to comfort her, though she herself is stunned to learn the date is FIVE years later than she remembered. She is not quite so affected however, nor is Bagson who learns seven years have passed since his last memeory. Both are from long-lived races and, though disconcerted, do not feel the loss as much as poor Constance, who, given what she can recall of their advanced age and poor-health, has every reason to suspect her parents may be dead by now!

Of all the party, Nine takes news of these lost years the best. He cannot even recall what year it was when he met Ruz anyway, and since he was only a few weeks old at the time (as far as he believes) he has yet to come to appreciate the value of those wasted years.

At this point, evidently either deciding the party is crazy, cursed, or both, most of the villagers save the barman and the group in the corner, leave the inn with some haste. The four thugs simply look angrier, and more suspicious, than ever.

At that moment, a terrified local comes bursting into the inn, complaining about “some grey-skinned monster tearing up the town and yelling for his friends. Adria and Ruz quickly move outside and wave to Thutson, who quickly runs up and reports that he cannot see the sails at all from the hills, which are somewhat lower than the hill upon which they appeared.

Before Thutson can finish gathering his breath, three men, all armoured and clearly expecting trouble, burst into the inn. One, the oldest man, is of advancing years and is clearly the sheriff. Clad in chain mail and carrying a seemingly ancient spear older even than he is and with a bronzed helmet perched upon his head, he quickly tells the other two to stand down. The youngest of the three is a boy of perhaps sixteen, clad in poorly fitting leather armour and armed only with a brace of javelins. The third, who bears a clear family resemblance to the young man, is between the other two in years and carries a simple farmers flail balanced on one shoulder. His blue and white vestments, worn over his well-fitted breastplate, mark him as the local Priest.

Relieved to finally find the sheriff, the group relate their tale, explaining that they happened to sight a fleet of black sails after appearing in the strange magical circle across the causeway. On an island they are informed the locals call the Stumps. The local men seem sceptical and the three newcomers even laugh.

One, the youngest, blurts out. “Hah, Pirates have never troubled us before. We’ve got the Sword of Xen..” he shuts up after being cuffed round the ear and told to shut up the sheriff. The youth throws an apologetic, almost fearful glance across the room to the four thugs, and mutters a terrified apology to the man seated in the centre. Someone he calls “Big Jim”, evidently the leader of the four thugs.

Despite the sudden silence in the room, the party asks what the lad means. Seemingly unafraid of the four thugs the priest, who introduces himself as Father Morton, explains that the locals believe that the village is protected from harm by the sword of some hero - they say a human but he reckons a hobgoblin- named Xenophon. This Xenpohon supposedly fought a great battle against an evil army and slew its demonic leader not far from the town. Though the locals clearly look angry that the Priest has told these adventurous looking foreigners about the sword, the father seems unconcerned. It`s fairly clear that while even the sheriff and his deputy - father Mortons son- fear Big Jim and his cohorts, they in turn have a healthy respect for the prowess of the priest.

Still concerned and not entirely sure this Sword will save the village, the party set to discussing whether or not they should try to reclaim the sword. What if it is the only thing keeping this village safe from raiders? While the others agree that the ships seem to be staying out of sight for the moment and agree to rent a few rooms for the night, Ruz slips out the back and catches up with father Morton.

The priest explains a little more about the Swords history, stating that it was supposedly stored someplace secret nearby, but that the only records he knew of its location went up in flames when the local library - the private collection of the towns previous mayor- went up in smoke with all the town records six years ago. He explains that the townsfolk cling to a “superstitious” belief that the Sword has kept them safe while all the surrounding villages were long ago plundered and slavered into extinction. Privately, he believes it has more to do with the fact the bay entrance is invisible from the sea. After all, if this Sword was so powerful, why have all the mines dried up and the town reduced to such a penurious state?

Ruz makes some comment about asking just out of interest in a good tale, but the Father sees right through him and merely smiles. “The tombs up there in the hills somewhere,” he says, “and good riddance to the Sword if you find it. As long as it`s here these fools will cling to this half-life they lead, trusting in the sword to protect them rather taking fate into their own hands. Half these fools still believe things will get better again if only the keep faith with the sword.” He nods sadly towards the ruins of the old shrine, a testimony to the townsfolks faith in the sword rather than the Gods.

He goes on to explain that many of the villagers would likely fight to keep the sword safe. He goes on to mention that the islanders are a stubborn lot. They fought off no less than four invasions by Breland during the War, and even now, twelve years after the Day of Mourning, they still consider themselves subjects of the Kingdom of Cyre. Even though the surviving Prince of Cyre barely recognises that the island exists. Some of these folk even believe the Sword was the only thing that saved the island from the same fate as the rest of Cyre. Maybe they are right after all, for things started going bad right about then. Perhaps saving the island from the fate of their mother Kingdom simply exhausted the Swords Power. the father speculates. But it is readily apparent that the Father doesn’t believe it. “Swords that powerful”, he says, “simply don’t exist.”

“Host knows the locals don’t have faith in the Gods anymore. Speaking of which, services are held nightly here, at my house. Your friends are all welcome. I expect you’ll need me for some free healing soon too -but only if no villagers need it first. Good day.”

Happy to have learned so much information, Ruz returns to the rest of the group. They have wiled away the time making plans in quietly hushed voices, relating what they can remember of their origins and chatting amicably among themselves. Bagson makes a few unwholesome jokes that leave Constance near sickened, and the two girls head of the far end of the table to indulge in a little girl talk. Young Constance still seems out of her depth, but thanks to the efforts of Adria she has begun to admit that things are indeed, "quite exciting".

Before long, Thutson indicates he’s going to take another look from the hill, and is followed by the majority of the party save Clifford, who intends to keep an eye on their gear -such as it is- and Adria, who declares her intention to do a little sneaking.

Shortly after the party leave the inn, Adria also rises and goes to poke about town. Two of the thugs follow her out. Clifford, torn between following and letting the parties gear -and the other two thugs- out of his sight decides to trust in the abilities of his elven companion and remains right where he is.

Adria quickly spots her tail, and tries to loose them by ducking behind a building. She’s spotted however, and the two thugs mockingly lounge against the opposite wall for a while, waving and leering, until one them decides to approach.

He reveals that Jim and his boys are on to them, don’t believe the idiotic story that they simply appeared on the Stumps, and know what they’re really pokeing about for. They offer a hundred gold, fifty now and fifty to be collected from the mile marker outside town, if they leave before nightfall and tell their masters they found nothing.

Perplexed, but smelling an opportunity for profit, Adria agrees and accepts a hefty bag of gold. As she heads back to the inn, feeling smug, she wonders how the hell someone could be willing to part with so much gold -much less own so much gold- in a town where the inn-keep told her not to flash her wealth around when she bought drinks with a silver piece.

Not long after, she bumps into the sheriffs deputy, Young Morton, who adds he also knows why the characters are really here and that, if they cut him into the treasure, he can lead the party to the old tomb, where Xenophon is said to lie in state. Adria once again agrees readily and arranges to meet the youngster at dusk, at the milestone outside the village.

She gets back to the inn shortly before the others return. Hearing that the group spotted a single black-sailed mast skirting the horizon before fading from view, the groups concludes that the fleet is waiting for something -or someone. Ruz is determined to find out more about the Swords location and picks through the ruins of the library, drawing a few curious looks from the locals. He finds nothing but charred flagstones and a few starved rats. However, not long after he heads out the back of the inn to the privy, the only place he has not been followed by one of the thugs since Adria made the deal, and takes on the form of Father Morton.

In this form he walks casually past the two thugs standing by the inn door (keeping a wary eye on Bagson, who is having a fly pipe-smoke outside the inn) with a cheery wave which the two thugs do not return.

He makes a show of cleaning up the shrine a little, while in fact he is actually searching it. He comes across a small piece of paper -evidently a confession to murder written by one of Jims boys, placed here as a request for forgiveness for this sin- and pockets it. He also finds a small flagstone marked with a hobgoblin “X” rune, but thinks nothing of it at the time and returns to the group, deciding to keep his discovery to himself for the time being and considering whether he should take up the matter himself or leave it to the sheriff.

As he reaches the inn door, a young lad, breathless as a blown horse, runs through the town square bawling “They took ‘em, the gobbers took me friends.” Immediately a crowd, including the characters, gathers round the boy. After some coaxing he reveals that he and his friends were up playing by the old tomb when some gobbers appeared and started dancing and preying “an stuff.” Rather stupidly, his younger friends, Cal and Hob, stayed to watch and were caught soon after another bunch of hobgoblins showed up and fought a battle with the first arrivals. The lad watched saw the whole thing from a distance, but ran away shortly after the boys were dragged off. Alas, he is in such a state he cannot remember in which direction the hobgoblins were headed.

A near riot breaks out as the village sceptics shout “Where was the sword when we needed it eh?” and others cry out that it was the boys on fault for committing sacrilege by playing round the tomb. Father Morton and the Sheriff make a start at calming the mob down, and send young Morton off to lead the characters to the Tomb.

They get there about twenty minutes later and after some careful scouting determine that the second group of hobgoblins did indeed win the fight. The bodies have been stripped bare, all save that of two priests who kneel before a ragged alter at the tomb. Young Morton is able to determine which of the tracks belonged to the winners by the two sets of drag marks that suggest the boys were led off to the east.

Although the tracks disappear over broken ground, he reckons they are headed for the old gold mine, and can lead the way. There is some talk of sending Constance back to town, for her safety, but she disagrees. It seems she is not only rather embarrassed but also somewhat ashamed by her conduct back on the Stumps. She has always dreamed of doing “field work” and is determined to do better. Reluctantly, the party agrees, but only after Clifford hands over his crossbow to the otherwise weapon-less sprig of a girl.

Young Morton smiles nervously at her, and the two youths (both are barely seventeen) seem to draw confidence from each others presence. The party follows the tracks and Ruz, disguised as a goblin, scouts the buildings at the mine head. Three are little more than shacks housing old and useless mine equipment. One is some sort of office. Although it reeks of stale beer, urine and faeces, Ruz holds his breath and does some exploring. He comes across a tattered uniform with a single blood-stained rent above the heart. Further inspection finds an official warrant declaring the bearer as a Tax-Collector for the Crown City of Saraghost. He also finds the mans official tax collection pouch. Unsurprisingly, it is empty.

However, the party do not yet make the connection between the corpse and the strange behaviour exhibited by Big Jim and the rest of the town.

The party explore further into the dungeon, with a very nervous Constance and Young Morten bringing up the rear, Morten with a torch and Constance with a loaded crossbow. At least, its loaded until Bagson reaches back and removes the bolt. “Never cock the weapon with abolt loaded until you need to shoot it”, he whispers in grandfatherly tones, “you might slip and shoot yourself.” Contrite, the young lady never the less nods her understanding, and while she leaves the string pulled back, the quarrel stays tightly held in her quivering spare hand. Both the youths are clearly terrified, and its only the presence and coaxing of the other heroes that keeps them from bolting.

As the party moves deeper into the mines, Ruz, carrying a torch and wearing the shape of a hobgoblin, leads the group with Bagson and Thutson (both of whom have dark vision) about thirty feet behind. Each with one eye closed against the light to protect their dark-sight. The remaining group travel about thirty feet behind the "odd-couple".

Bagson’s bat familiar scouts ahead, screeching once after returning from a side passage. Knowing foes to be present, the parties sneakier members stalk down the short passageway into the old tackroom, where two drunken guards sleep off the victory celebrations. Both are quickly slain and the party members cannot help but comment once again on the strange lack of discipline displayed by these famously militant creatures.

After continuing down a corridor, ignoring several flooded side passages showing no trace of use, they reach a fork in the mine and choose to follow the steeper path. The party are startled by the screeching and moaning of a ghost, which, though terrifying in aspect, appears either unable or unwilling to actually harm them. The ghost is thatof a naked young man, with a great stab wound in his chest and a gaping slash in his throat. When the wailing and moaning attracts the attention of two hobgoblins, who seem rather blaise with regards to the ghost in their midst, Ruz heads down the corridor to intercept them while wearing the face of a dead drunk. Disgusted, the two hobgoblins warn the drunken hobgoblin to return to his post and sober up before the boss sees him. At least if he wants to live until tomorrow. The two guards chuckle nastily and head back the way the came.

Meanwhile, the characters determine that the ghost simply wants them to retrieve his corpse for burial. After some wading in a deep murky pool, the bloated body is removed. It`s clearly been in the water for around a week, and the skin seems to slough off as the characters touch it. Constance bravely manages to avoid throwing up, but only because Morton and the others seem to be watching. Bagson finds a peice of a blade broken off in the neck wound, and pockets the evidence for later. He is swiftly becoming suspicious about just where Jim and his boys got their money from. And why they are so worried about having strangers poke about the place.

The party promise the ghost they will bury the body on the way back , as they have to “tend to the living first, then the dead,” . This seems to remind the ghost of something, and after further pantomime they determine that the two boys are indeed down this corridor along with lots and lots of hobgoblins. Indeed as the party heads further down the corridor, they begin to hear the noise of revelry and celebration, though its hard to determine from where, as the noise seems subdued as it echoes its way through the mineshafts.

Wearing the uniforms of the dead guards, Thutson and Ruz amble up to the two guards from earlier, who appear to be guarding some form of lift mechanism. The two guards seem more annoyed than alarmed at their “drunken” approach and seem more concerned with discussing whether or not one of them should exchange posts with the drunks than what the two newcomers are doing with their hands. Ruz`s rapier strikes the first guard in the throat, nicking the windpipe and narrowly missing the jugular. Its not enough to kill him however, and he tries to rasp out an alarm. Thutson on the other hand beheads his foe with a might blow. Alas, the element of surprise is lost however, as the still-helmeted head makes its noisy, clanging way down the mineshaft, followed an instant later by the armoured body of the second, fanatical hobgoblin, who screams that his death is dedicated to the “Dark Worm” as he throws himself down the shaft.

Below, the sounds of revelry cease.

At the lift, the party makes plans for when the platform rises to meet them, not quite realising that the mechanism only operates from above. At least, not until the mechanically savvy Constance points this out. When they begin to hear sounds of a barricade being assembled below, the party finally decides to act. Constance activates the lift mechanism, bringing the platform up from the level below. Though the characters are ready for battle, the platform is empty. It seems the characters must take the battle to the enemy themselves. Constance and Morton are delegated to remain above and guard the lift mechanism, ready to recall the lift platform at a shout from the others. Both youths realise they are deliberately being left out of the most dangerous fighting, but neither protest. They both know how important their role will be, especially with some unexplored passages still behind them.

The lift descends slowly, with the party’s shield-users in the foe. Though the drop is only a mere sixty feet, it seems to take forever for the aging mechanism to reach the next level.

There, what the character see in the mighty cavern, is enough to make their hearts stop.

Six hobgoblin warriors, all bearing light wounds and drawn longbows, stand not fifty feet away behind a makeshift barricade of tables and mining equipment. Behind them stands a mighty warrior, scarred near from head to foot, with a dagger held to the throat of one of the boys. To his left stands a decrepit old crone in ceremonial clothing, decorated with rats skulls and bird claws, holding a knife at the throat of a second boy. At the other end of the torch lit cavern, a gaggle of hobgoblin children are clustered behind a large assembly of cooking pots and pans, clutching improvised kitchen tools and protected by a mob of hobgoblin women carrying small but deadly looking meat-knives and kitchen-cleavers.

Its clear that the characters cannot win this battle without taking losses. Not least amoung them to two boys. Tense negotiations follow, in which the hobgoblins agree to relinquish one of the two boys as down payment in exchange for 2000gp. The other boy will be released only delivery of the money, unless, the chief hobgoblin agrees, “we get too hungry first. So be quick!”.

The characters return up the lift, with the screams of the second boy screaming in their ears, “Don’t leave me. Don’t leeeeaaaavvvvvve meeeeeeee!”

The question remains? Where will the party find 2000 gold in a one-horse town like Bronce? Bagson and Adria think they know the answer

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